Tighten Charts Lookup Logic?

[wwwombat]

Is there a possibility that either the lookup-logic that exists for finding chart hits is made more exact or that an option/flag is provided to do so (so those that actually like this "looseness" can continue to havce it)?

I am absolutely meticuluous in keeping my ID3 tag, the chart information and the physical file name all in sync. However it appears from empirical use that the chart lookup logic only makes use of the first one or two words of both the artist name and track title to achieve its lookup result and if a  so-called "hit" is found that is alphabetically closer to A then the wrong song is returned.

Some examples that I've found so far so you can possibly check for yourself:

• Yes : Owner Of A Lonely Heart (US 1984 January/February) returns Max Graham vs Yes : Owner Of A Lonely Heart
• Madonna : American Pie (UK 2000 March) returns Madonna : American Life
• Metallica : The Unforgiven II (ARIA 1998 April) returns Metallica : The Unforgiven (a chart hit from earlier years)
• Both Los Del Rio's and Los Del Mar's versions of Macarena (ARIA 1996 September) both return the Los Del Mar version
• Elton John : Candle In The Wind 1997 (ARIA 1997/1998 October thru January) and Elton John : Candle In The Wind (live) (US 1988 February) both return Elton John : Candle In The Wind (all 3 versions charted in different years and are different versions that should be recognised)
• Madonna : Music (ARIA 200 September) returns Britney Spears featuring Madonna : Me Against The Music

For all of these, if you go into the required artist album (I have all my songs grouped under the appropriate "Album Artist" in a self-created "Greatest Hits" collection... I'm essentially setting up a charting-singles-only jukebox) and select the song from there you do get played what you selected as presumably the key match here is exact as it's driven by the config-built database)

[Barcrest]

I can add an exact match option but people didn't like that when i had it before.

[wwwombat]

  That confuses me... if it's an option then I can turn it on and be satisfied. If the option is turned off (and is set that way by default I guess) then how are the rest any worse off?

Surely it's important to return the actual song you have selected.

Or, alternately, not have it as an option (if that's the problem) and just do a two-tiered lookup. Search and return exact match first if it exists... if no entry found then search (on first two words of artist/title or however it's done) and return as per the current process. That way I can get the exact match if desired to separate the Elton John versions of Candle In The Wind but those that just want any version/don't want to rename/retag to accommodate/ignore "featuring"/"remix" etc. will also get their hit.

[Barcrest]

Part of the problem is that an exact match takes a little longer. I will see what i can do for you in the next release.

[wwwombat]

Still adding and testing the songs as I go through the charts. Other songs found so far to exhibit the behaviour described above are:-

• Carl Douglas - Kung Fu Fighting (USA Dec 74/Jan 75) brings up Bus Stop featuring Carl Douglas - Kung Fu Fighting (a later remixed version)
• Gary Glitter - Rock And Roll (Part 2) (USA Aug 72) brings up Gary Glitter - Rock And Roll (Part 1)
• Jackson Browne - Doctor My Eyes (USA Apr 72) brings up the Jackson 5 version of Doctor My Eyes)

[Barcrest]

I will be adding the option of an exact match for you in the next V6 release, i need to confirm that i have indeed fixed the bugs first as this issue is more an annoyance than a bug. You could alternatively use the PRE files for now which you can edit to point to the correct files.

[wwwombat]

Happy to wait for a future release for the exact match flag but in the meantime I'll bite anyway... what exactly are the PRE files or, perhaps more importantly, where do I find them on a Windows 7 system?

[Barcrest]

You can create the PRE files using the included decades builder. It will perform an exact match as well if you wish. If there are PRE files which is basically the decades chart file with the track patch added to it then E-Touch will use those instead.

[wwwombat]

Been continuing to roll through the charts (over 8000 songs checked so far) filling in the gaps and have been using version 6.0.10 in case it's relevant (I don't see bug fixes pertinent to me in the latest betas.)

1) I now have the exact flag switched on since I prefer and need exactness in the chart selections. Whilst most of the above-mentioned songs now resolve correctly some (3 identified so far) still have issues. This appears to be because the exact flag isn't exactly exact (to coin a phrase   )

Empirically, it still appears that wildcards are placed either side of the field string rather than the entire field matching exactly the required title (or artist). To illustrate this my first example of "Yes : Owner Of A Lonely Heart" (US 1984 January/February) will still return "Max Graham vs Yes : Owner Of A Lonely Heart"

Whilst the track title is an exact match, the track artist also returns a match because the word "Yes" also appears in the track artist field of "Max Graham vs Yes"

This same afflication will also apply to

• Madonna : Music (ARIA 200 September) returns Britney Spears featuring Madonna : Me Against The Music
• Carl Douglas - Kung Fu Fighting (USA Dec 74/Jan 75) brings up Bus Stop featuring Carl Douglas - Kung Fu Fighting

There may be more but, again, I presume it only highlights itself if the match is found in an alphabetically-earlier entry.

May I have the exact logic tuned so that it matches the ENTIRE field in the database please?

2) Long entries
Billboard is very explicit when it comes to naming the track artist and track title. So far, length hasn't been a problem (other than in displays where it wordwrap overlaps and makes it messy... what chance scrolling entities in these areas?) other than for one entry.

US Chart for Septemmber 1997 slot 10 has

"Lil' Kim featuring Da Brat, Left Eye, Missy Elliott & Angie Martinez","Not Tonight"

Whilst I have this match correct it "greys out" so I suspect whatever work field you use may not be big enough / it has truncated it for some reason (certainly the display under the Chimei skin stops at "Angie", and at featuring under the default skin.)

3) Double-A sided entries.

One extreme downside of the EXACT match flag (although it does apply somewhat to the "fuzzy" logic employed otherwise) is the issue of double-A side chart entries. I pose this situation to see what suggestions (and what is possible to be coded for by the author) could be put forward to resolve it. Please remember I am using the charts provided and cross-referencing against official Billboard (book) publications and the website and internet to double-check the entry and get the exact titling of both song and artist (yes, I am THAT anal-retentive)

As an example let's look at the US chart entry for MARCH 1970. Entries #2 and 3 are:

• Sly And The Family Stone : Thank You (Fallentinme Be Mice Elf Again) / Everybody Is A Star
• Creedence Clearwater Revival : Travelin' Band / Who'll Stop The Rain

Under the old "fuzzy" logic where I suspect only only or two words from each field were being used in the search, at least the first of the two songs was selectable from the chart entry (and the second could be accessed by tapping the album cover and getting to the alternate track that way)

If you use exact logic then of course the "song(s)" are "greyed out" and unselectable since no exact match can possibly exist.

So how best to handle this? Some possible suggestions I'll quickly throw up:-

• I adjust the chart entries so that only what I believe it the "popular" song is listed in the chart. Whilst I could convince myself that maybe this would be the case in case of Sly in the above example, I can't bring myself to do it in the case of CCR. Besides... the official Billboard charts do list both so the entry itself is incorrect.
• Since the "/" character can't exist in a PC filename perhaps the program logic could be adjusted so that the "/" is searched for and either the title to be used in the search is just the part prior to this "delimiter" or, ideally, somehow may both sides be selectable so they each route to the correct song option page. The second of these would be my preferred solution although the first part should be reasonably achieveable since it almost reverts back to being a "fuzzy' search.
• Maybe if either the artist field or track title field has a "/" in it (indicating a double-sided entry... although how would you cater for and "ignore" AC/DC then) then the track could highlight as "existing" and when selected it take you to an album select page instead of the track options page? Or instead a further interstitial page be shown with just those two options to further select from?
• Maybe the chart list of 10 could be extendable to any number (with appropriate scrolling functionality). However many skins would also have to be redone and it may not be readily identifiable which of the entries is a double-sided entry.
• I could join the two "offending MP3s" together to form a third "double song" (and thus an extra data entry)... but do people really want to listen to both songs all the time?

One further interesting complication that I have noted whilst going through these is that some double-A sided entries actually have the same song title but have (slightly) different artists. For example the song "Into You" was performed by the artist "Fabolous" and charted in the US Charts of September and October 2003. However one version featured Tamia whilst the other featured Ashanti and both were included on his CD. When it came to the Billboard entry however, both songs were counted together to calculate sales. This was another example like this but I forget the specifics at the moment whilst sitting here at work.

Conversely the original version of Jennifer Lopez's "Ain't It Funny" and the "Murder Remix" of it (featuring Ja Rule and Cadillac Tah) were counted as two separate versions and only the second one charted in the top 10 according to Billboard (the other version charted but not quite that well.)

Occasionally an entire EP also makes the singles chart... case in point - Ratcat's "Tingles" (EP) in the ARIA March/April/May 1991 charts.... not sure how this could be handled unless you could use the (EP) as a delimiter and route to an album display instead of looking for a song match.

So anyway.... I'd appreciate some feedback (and with buy-in thoughts from what can programmatically be arranged by the author of course) on the best way to surmount this "problem".

[Barcrest]

Well this morning i changed the exact match to indeed be an exact match. You were right it was adding a wild card either side of the full name before so this is now changed. This will be in the next beta that is looking like being released tomorrow.

As for the double A side tracks I think you'll have to find a system that best suits you. Personally I think only 1 track should be listed for number 1 not 2 and so I would suggest only listing 1 of the tracks. The other methods you suggest such as splitting on "/" would work but would mean there were problems with ac/dc like you pointed out unless it was only performed on the track side.

[wwwombat]

I'm not sure anything I've seen so far can handle a double-A side or EP other than the original old-skool 45rpm jukeboxes for which of course EVERY disc had both sides and could be highlighted and selected as such. I just thought I might offer a few suggestions for debate (not expecting any might seriously get up since presumably most would have a skin flow-on effect that would probably prove insurmountable... unless you could build a "temporary album display" using the normal album-type skin for just the (presumably) 2 tracks in question)

Anyhoo... that to one side for the moment:-

The other methods you suggest such as splitting on "/" would work but would mean there were problems with ac/dc like you pointed out unless it was only performed on the track side

I could certainly live with the fuzzy / exact match being only performed on the track side of the world up to the delimiter since I could automatically place what I think is the biggest hit on the left of the "/" (which most do anyway) thus allowing it to be checked and selected directly from the chart screen and have the other one having to be accessed via a couple of extra presses through the CD cover to view the entire "album" contents and the song in question found and selected from there. That's sort of how the fuzzy screen works now anyway except that the prime song can be wrong as per my examples (and thus you get the wrong album when trying to select the second song as well.)

That gives me my correct display and exact match that I sought on the "prime" single and the flipside song (since selected from the album) as we know is always a direct link to the correct file and no further search algorithm is employed.

So yes please... I guess that means 1 or 2 words from the track title if using fuzzy search (i.e. whatever you do now) or all words (i.e. the entire phrase) from start up to the "/  delimiter (or end of title) if using exact match?

Although this would work enough for me to drop further requests in this area (and thank you in advance) perhaps you could consider the possibility of allowing the user to choose the delimiter in operation in future (like the perhaps the tilde (~)) or : (which causes the program to have conniptions at the moment if I try to label the artist which I've had to call instead D-Ream by its correct name of D:Ream (BTW...rant time...why do artists insist on using $ (Ke$ha),  ! (P!nk) or _ (can't remember ATM)... is it just to p!ss computer programmers off?) so that the artist field could be similarly split? As I said I can only think of 1 or 2 occasions where this happens at the moment though whereas double-sided songs where the artist is the same abound.

I'll look forward to the version that contains these adjustments and continue to thrash-test it, and the new widescreen hi-res skin, when they arrive.

P.S. If anyone DOES know of software that handles this situation elegantly or has a midnight-epiphany (my best ideas often occur when I'm asleep) as to how this could be achieved smoothly, then please proffer all suggestions.

[Barcrest]

I would like to know of any other software that even offers you the decades facility. The only one I am aware of is the Sound Liesure Milstones In Music and that is not availble to anyone.

[Novalak]

i love decades its in my eyes the best feature in etouch! exact match works perfectly! love it

[andowhy]

i love decades its in my eyes the best feature in etouch! exact match works perfectly! love it

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