Freebox Jukebox

Projects and Links => Readers Projects => Topic started by: jonfinpausa on April 03, 2007, 10:41:22 AM

Title: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 03, 2007, 10:41:22 AM
ok boys n girls  ;D this is the latest roll out from the old man.

Start to finish


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Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 03, 2007, 11:29:14 AM
#3 cabinet. Should fit nicely into my Harley Davidson Theme Rec room.
If you look closley you can just catch the Dell Small Formfactor g500 on my workbench waiting to go into the cabinet. :o

This Cabinet will have all the latest and greatest including HDMI out for the 46" Sony Bravio LCD(not shown in photo YET!) 8) hanging on the wall beside the jukebox.More pictures coming soon.


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Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 03, 2007, 10:04:14 PM
Looks good. I wish I had the tools to do things like that.

Nice finished product.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 03, 2007, 11:55:54 PM
Thanks Kizer
I hired all the cabinet fab work out to a local company that builds other cabinets for us.
My friend has a body shop so we barter trades with each other

I will post some of the inside picts when Im done.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: coffee on April 04, 2007, 06:29:31 AM


Very impressive. Looks very professional.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 04, 2007, 11:29:06 AM
Thanks Coffee,

I'm doing my best to make Freebox look as professional as possible.
I would love to be able to send Barry more money for all his hard work and it seems
everybody that comes to visit and see's my jukeboxs I have built love them.
The only thing that is stopping them from buying or wanting the jukeboxs is the level of technical expertize required to get the mp3 library built.Barry is working on the config file and I belive I can market the product here in the US if we can solve or build a user friendly interface for customers to add music.

It needs to be as simple as the customer puts the music CD or Video DVD into the drive and the material is ripped,tagged, artwork is downloaded,directory structure built, and freebox is updated all in one click.I know this is a big task to complete and it will take time, but when its done I will have the cabinets ready to go.To make matters more grim we are now entering into 2 new technologies with HD-DVD and Blue-Ray.People here in the US want 1080I HD TV and they will spend the money to get it.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: mwflint on April 04, 2007, 12:35:55 PM
Very nice job, Looks pro to me. Wish mine looked that good but,As i progress maybe it will too.

Again nice job.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 04, 2007, 04:03:01 PM
I think a one click solution would be awesome however I really dont see that being done anytime soon.

Barry can correct me on this and Im sure he will, but with all the available apps out there its tough to say I'll add that when something else already exists.

For Example:
Audiograbber rips
Album cover downloader grabs covers
Config2.exe or Config3.exe builds the database

I built a small cheesy batch file that will copy finished files and build the database, but I have to look for a command line ripper, but you would still need to find a cover downloader.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: coffee on April 04, 2007, 04:21:11 PM
Hi Everyone

I have to agree with Kizer. There is only that much that can be automated. To expand the config to do all that would make it even more complicated for a new customer. The veriables is just to much for example, your file structure. At the end off the day the config file is straight forward. Get your structure sorted, your collection should be tagged, build with config and that's it. Nothing to it.
My oppinion is that if somebody can't do that he shouldn't have something like this. You should have some basic computer experients to help yourself.

Coffee
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on April 04, 2007, 08:41:27 PM
VEry nice indeed
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 04, 2007, 08:56:12 PM
Thanks guys for the compliments, I try to do my best.

I know Im wishing for alot but if Im going to dream I might as well dream big.The police academy was a real treat for me at 42 years old the other cadets called me pappy ;D...but I had fun with it, pushups and situps and some big ugly dood yelling in my face for 10 weeks...the more he yelled the more I laughed, and the more pushups he made me do ;D

I had ask Barry if he wanted me or some of my resources to help with the code, but he was a little gun shy to that and I understand.Maybe its better this way as it keeps the enitre project fun for me and not work.Im sure it would become work to mass produce jukebox's if we had a perfect software solution.

Im glad to have the time to get back to this and anything i might be able to do for you or the project please be sure to ask.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 06, 2007, 02:27:23 AM
Here it is !!! all done with a fancy HD skin built by eist1, thanks bro awsome job on the skin

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Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 07, 2007, 12:25:23 AM
WOW !!!! This just keeps getting better and better. EIST1 is up to version 3 of the special HD skin for my Jukebox and he just keeps improving it almost daily. Thanks Bro...your the man.

I decided a jukebox in the rec-room is cool but I spend most fo my time behind the bar in the rec-room and for that purpose a remote for the jukebox would be a perfect solution so I dont have to run over the jukebox all the time.

So here is a picture of the touch-screen remote.Its still on in beta on my bench but soon I will polish the aluminum frame and mount the screen behind the bar and ADD a screen with drink ingrediants so I dont have to remember what goes in what drink ;D Im getting old and forgetfull.

Thanks again eist1 for the awsome work on the skin, It does truely make the Harley Davidson Jukebox complete.

Fish

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Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: squirrellydw on April 17, 2007, 01:09:42 PM
very nice
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 17, 2007, 02:35:51 PM
Dude.... Instead of connecting to the juke using VNC or what ever you are using how about running a server client set up? I have been looking at doing this for a while now. Basically you run freebox in either server or client mode. The server handles all the queue and has the databases on it and you set the client up with a mapped drive to the server and the client just adds acts as a secondary interface to the server. Obviously you would need the drive letters to be the same on both machines for the files but you can do this with windows mapping....

It does involve recoding the queue handling but i think it could be done in about a week...

Wonder if anyone else would be interested....
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Thunderball on April 17, 2007, 04:45:21 PM
So, we could use multiple clients connected to the same server? Sounds good---
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 17, 2007, 05:12:41 PM
That would be cool Barry and I would go for testing it and trying it out, but in this application the reason I used VNC is becuase I wanted to control the jukebox in my rec room from a remote location, I didnt want a seperate jukebox, plus I know your busy man and I didnt want to make more work for you with the program.VNC in full screen mode with the buttons turned off is perfect plus Im just getting a program done to handle the touch screen behind the bar, it will not only be a remote for the jukebox,it will call up other programs as well like a drink ingrediate screen, and a light controller screen,and a video controller screen which are 3 different programs running on the same box, so vnc is used just for the jukebox screen and one will never seen its vnc making the connection.The program just has buttons at the top of the screen and calls each of the 4 programs to the front perspectivly.I guess someday I might make it so all 4 can be on screen at the same time and you touch the corner you want to make that program fill the screen... hrmmmmm.. I gota go try sumfin   :o

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 17, 2007, 05:24:00 PM
So would this mean I could store all my MP3s say on a Linux box and have to different machines using the same files? I currently can do that now with Samba sharing unless your talking the client simply interfaces with the server which is doing all of the library updates and whatnot without out having to build databases on more than one machine.

That would be rather slick, but almost just allowing somebody to be lazy when all they have to do is click on the UPDATE button in config or CREATE.

I personally use PC anywhere when Im admining my Jukebox from a laptop so I dont have to stand at my console.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 17, 2007, 06:07:27 PM
I have 6 box's running with the same mapped drive to my linux server via Samba with no problems.
The linux serve also has FTP,Apache,and procmail running.. LOL Im a beast to get all I can out of my hardware.

Never even gave the client server thing much thought becuase its no big deal to update the database librarys on each box.I use a all in one touch screen in the bathroom....people really think its cool cause it has a picture rotation screen saver... LOL. Normally porn if the inlaws arent coming over.JK :D

Fish

Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 17, 2007, 06:24:15 PM
my client server model means you can have several dumb terminal jukes in the same house/bar. The server juke plays the songs the terminal ones work as normal but do not play anything they just command the server juke. So when you add to the queue you are adding to one central queue on the master/server machine. When you view the queue you are viewing the master queue...

You must have been to bars where the jukebox is piped into more than one room and each room has a selector unit?
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 17, 2007, 06:29:44 PM
You know what Barry, in the States they dont do that, I have seen the music piped into many different rooms or areas of the bar, but you have only one location to select and pay for the music you want to hear.

Thats very interesting and we could offer that here with no competition.It will cost only 400.00 per ascap license for each jukebox, but I guess we could have as many remotes in the build/bar as we wanted.Thats cool !!!!Never thought of it that way

Fish.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 17, 2007, 06:42:38 PM
Ah so basically I could have 3 terminals that are on different ends of my house with one server playing the tunes. SO you wouldn't have to interface the server machine, but would have 3 different locations to select what you want. Thats a slick idea. Would there have to be any tweaks with the Os or would it be a server/client app?

Interesting. What I would like is possibly a spin off of that. A terminal in my garage that could access the files from the server and play seperately in my garage. However that would be more or less a server/client setup like running Linux/Samba which I could easily do if I wasn't so lazy. I might do it anyways.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 17, 2007, 08:06:32 PM
That how Im set up right now Kizer, each jukebox is linked to my mp3 server via a mapped drive letter and each jukebox plays its own selected material, I just put a remote behind my bar so the bartender ME in most cases does not have to walk over to the other side of the rec room to turn down the jukebox or select a new song in case the jukebox is playing something I dont want to hear.

But I do like the idea of having multiple locations for access points, especially in the commercial enviornment.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 17, 2007, 11:57:07 PM
I will make it so but this will be in freebox 3.... I think we might be looking at something different soon...
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Sarge on April 18, 2007, 02:09:40 AM
You know what Barry, in the States they dont do that, I have seen the music piped into many different rooms or areas of the bar, but you have only one location to select and pay for the music you want to hear.

Thats very interesting and we could offer that here with no competition.It will cost only 400.00 per ascap license for each jukebox, but I guess we could have as many remotes in the build/bar as we wanted.Thats cool !!!!Never thought of it that way

Fish.

Actually there are several jukes in the US that allow use of a satellite box to make selections from. 

I too believe that would be an excellent addition to freebox.  By the way your jukebox looks great fish.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 18, 2007, 11:18:09 AM
Hey Thanks Sarge I have been working hard on the cabinets,eist did the entire skin, he is awsome.

I just live in York, and PA but I have been around and I have not seen in done in public places.

where and who is doing it Sarge? I would love to travel to the location and see who's hardware and software is being used.Its nice to know ahead of time who you compatition is and at what level they are.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Sarge on April 18, 2007, 02:27:04 PM
Assuming you are referring to digital jukes, Rowe, Merit, and Touchtunes all have jukes that link to Merit countertop trivias that allow a user to choose to play the jukebox from them.  I'd have no way of knowing any places in your area that use this as I reside in IL, but there are locations around my area that do. 
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 18, 2007, 03:12:34 PM
Thats awsome !!!!

Im such a geek !!! I just dont get out enough anymore  ;D

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 18, 2007, 05:09:33 PM
Yeah I used to visit an arcade/pool hall that had a few terminals that linked to a central system that pumped that tunes through out. Im guessing it was there master plan to keep people entertained and pumping quarters all day with one sound system.

Im guessing this place was at least 20,000 sq foot.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 18, 2007, 10:03:35 PM
Well this has been something i have wanted to add for a long while, it will be a killer option that no other juke you can get off the web has. It will not be an easy addition though so i will have to do that when i know i can devote a day to coding the juke... You know i really wish the juke earned me enough money to code it full time. I love working on it and chatting with you guys and it's only getting about 5% of my time right now, i would love to give it more... Still the summer break is a great time for me to do some serious coding on it... Roll on July...  ;D
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 18, 2007, 10:29:44 PM
I know its one of those out there projects because of time and well "little" things in our life, but are you thinking of two versions? One being server/client or is it going to be an addon or maybe a plugin to a stand alone?

Im only asking because after a while a program can only get so big before its memory usage in some cases gets labled as bloat because of all the features added that nobody uses. I myself would tinker with it, but wouldn't use it a lot, but on the other hand guys with Pubs and bars and heck future customers would.

Would I like to see this on the market? Oh yeah, I think it would simply rock.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 18, 2007, 11:15:43 PM
It will Rock and I would love the be the US distributer for the product.

Im workin on the Jukebox sales, if they go over well you might just have a job Barry  ;D

Lets see what happens.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 19, 2007, 11:47:59 AM
Basically all it involves is a change to how the queue works... There will be a setting in the app to run it in client or server mode and just some settings to point to the server drive. It all sounds simple but changing how the queue works is going to take time.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 19, 2007, 01:00:54 PM
Thats ok Bro, you keep making the software better and Ill work on getting the Jukeboxs to the market.I already Boss and Touch Tunes under control, they want the commercial pay per song market and we can take some of that business with a ASCAP license which is 400.00 per year per unit, but I dont want to challange that market yet.I would rather see people put them in their homes for personal use.
I have the price down pretty good now so its just a matter of marketing.

I have 2 rental units that are pretty much booked out most weekends and that is the best advertising I can get.People are at partys and functions and see the touch screen jukeboxs and want one for themselves or at least want to rent one for their partys.

My website traffic goes up every Sunday after the jukeboxs have been out on rental.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 19, 2007, 01:10:35 PM
Microsoft is driving the price of the jukebox up 135.00 per Jukebox due to licenses for the OS.
I can save maybe 10 or 15 bucks using WEPOS but I'm not sure its worth it.

I have a email into MS now and Im waiting for their response to licenses for an OS that is embedded just for a jukebox application.I have not heard back but i think they will prolly tell me to get stuffed unless I want 1000 licenses or more to start.Thats why Im looking at a possible different OS solution.Heck we only need Sound and Video and maybe networking.It would be great to just embed the entire package into one solution leaving what space is left on the hard drive for the music/video librarys.Its cheaper at the moment to leave as it is and pay MS the license until jukebox sales are abundent.

Im working on it !

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 19, 2007, 04:00:29 PM
Ok, I have one for you. How are you addressing the royalities for putting music in your Jukeboxes and renting them?

For example if I play a song off the Blink182 album aren't they going to want a cut because your using their song at a party and making money? Or is it because you own all the albums in the jukebox because you are using one copy and the box with the original copy goes with?

Anyways Im just asking to ask not to put out your fire because I think its a killer idea myself. You could practically call it "DiGiTal deJAY" or something of the sorts. Heck maybe I should build another thats light weight and tote it around. hahaha
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 19, 2007, 04:17:09 PM
Well Kizer royalities are only paid to artist if the customer is paying to listen to that song.I could purchase a ASCAP license for 400.00 per year per Jukebox if i wanted the customer to pay for each song being played or I want to collect an extra dollar to play the song now.

When I rent a jukebox,the customer is renting the equipment to play the music and make the sound, not for each song which is being played.Bill exceptors are not even connected in the rental units.Now one might argue how many copies of the music I have verses the number fo jukeboxs I have rented at one time.Example, if I have two jukeboxs out on the same day and the same time I should have 2 copies of each song that is on the jukeboxs providing that album and song was played at the same time on each jukebox.

Our attorneys say, for anyone to sue us they would have to prove we dont have 2 copies of the song and that song was played at the same time on the same day.So if an artist lawyer can prove that, then maybe he would be able to file a suit, but most likely we would be ask to purchase a second or third CD.But they would have to prove all the above first.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 19, 2007, 09:13:08 PM
There are changes coming in the next version of freebox where if you don't have a commercial licence you get a big warningscreen on boot up for a minute stating it's only for home use and it will have my email address on it and offer a reward for anyone paying to use the software. If you have a licence file than you won't see this....  This is part of my lock down.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 19, 2007, 09:31:16 PM
cool beans Barry, Its about time you get some of these guys to start paying up.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 19, 2007, 09:40:22 PM
Egads. Now my bootup time will take a lot longer. bahahahaha

Well I suppose if it needs it, it needs it.  ???
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: coffee on April 19, 2007, 10:36:59 PM
Hi Barry

Personaly I would use a banner on the main screen. It wouldn't be a problem to set your display to switch on after 2 minutes or so after the splash screen is gone. With a banner there is no easy way around it.
Well you could try and stick a peace of paper over it.   ;D

Coffee
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 19, 2007, 11:01:04 PM
Ok, the nag screen is not going down to well... How do i stop people using this for profit without paying me? Suggestions please.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 19, 2007, 11:02:17 PM
hmmmmm, you could limit how many albums or make it count how many times freebox
played and then pop-up a thanks for trying Freebox message and make the program close.

Dont compile that module of the code for those versions available to people who have donated.
This would also let you go back and add it to all the other versions if you wanted to

fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 19, 2007, 11:08:54 PM
hey Barry,

you know there is no way to delete albums with the new config3 file in the latest version?
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 19, 2007, 11:28:06 PM
Ok, the nag screen is not going down to well... How do i stop people using this for profit without paying me? Suggestions please.

I like coffees suggestion. Maybe a banner or some kind of image or whatever that sits at the top left of the program that says thank you for using Freeboxjukebox URL here and after a minute or some determined time it can fade away or a splash screen that is timed delay. I personally dont mind waiting a minute or whatever is reasonable to use it. I think it should however say "Thank you for using Freeboxjukebox http://www.freeboxjukebox.com. This application is not intended for Commerical use.

Is it possible to code the app so no matter what version is installed it runs with whatever method you choose and a file or key can be installed in the directory to disable it for the commerical "Paid" users? Ive donated a few bucks and I often know splash screens or nag screens are for freeware typically, but in this case those without donations are limited to less features.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 20, 2007, 12:21:43 AM
The coin mechs are all shut down right?
So maybe a key gen system could work or perhaps a full running version for a period of time.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 20, 2007, 10:28:06 AM
Oh i am just not going to bother it's all too much work and i can't be bothered... Everyone just carry on as before.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 20, 2007, 11:27:42 AM
well be known Barry any jukeboxs I sell running Freebox I will donate 50.00 bucks to you.

If you feel I owe you for the 2 rental units I have please let me know.I do not want to discourage or cheat you out of anything you have coming, Im just trying to promote both my jukeboxs and your software.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on April 20, 2007, 01:32:59 PM
It's all good... don't worry about it
Title: 1U Remote Installed
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 27, 2007, 01:33:09 PM
OK boys and girls  ;D if there is any involved with the project.Here is the 1U I have been working on for the remote that lives behind my Bar and controls the jukebox on the other side of the rec room
We first needed to hack the front controls and LEDS so we can turn the thing on and see what its doing.The ribbon cable end didnt pinout to the mother board.. No Problem


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Title: 1U Test Run and install
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 27, 2007, 01:43:26 PM
The 24 hour heat up on the bench went perfectly, well within the limits and ready for install.

After a lenthy fight going from a serial touch screen to a USB touch which is behind the bar used as the remote, XP Mini didnt like that idea so I had to slap it around a bit to convince the OS it could and would use the smaller USB touch Screen !!

WaA LAA !!! all done and no more running to the jukebox to change the song or select an album.

Oh and I added a stand alone Jukebox package so the remote can be used as a complete Jukebox hence no need to even turn on the Jukebox on the other side of the rec room.  ;D

NEXT !


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Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on April 27, 2007, 10:50:22 PM
Looks good man. I thought about throwing up some HD lights on mine too, but I haven't decided where as of yet. I could just for the heck of it on my prototype box and if I dont like it I can scrap it in the final. I might just because that looks cool. ;)
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on April 30, 2007, 10:41:27 AM
LOL yeah looks are everything.

I like to know that the thing is at least powering up and the HD is moving.
The power light on the 1U is a little bright, so we will putting a little resistor in to tone it down a bit.

The Saturday night Party went well into Sunday and everything performed perfectly,,except the Karaoke perfromers... LOL hehehe

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: mwflint on May 06, 2007, 04:45:40 PM
It's Sunday and I don't want to rain on your parade. But the $400.00 for ascap will
not cover digital jukebox's. Any machine with a hard drive is different, you have to have a
permit from ascap, Bmi/sony, seseac, and pay the Harry Fox agency for the rights to play
them in a commercial environment. You can not use any music from a download, stream,
such as walmart, sony.com . it is illegal to convert music for commercial use if you change
the format, say from WMA to Mp3. You have to pay the people that developed Mp3 $3000.00
minimum for the rights. The Harry fox agency is approx first payment of $10,000.00, So I would
be very careful of renting box's with music MP3 style and or even if you own the music on cd
you are still liable.Here is some of the e-mails from these places.
Hello,

Thanks for the additional information about your product.  It appears that you will indeed require mechanical licenses for the preloading of content and content updates.

In terms of licensing, HFA handles mechanical licensing where the content content servers are located within the United States, its territories and possessions.  You will also need to obtain master rights from the record labels. You must also obtain performance right licenses from the Performance Rights Organizations (ASCAP, BMI & SESAC).

> In the U.S., there are no royalty rates set for digital jukeboxes.  Therefore, a licensee needs to propose a royalty rate and each HFA publisher would decide to participate in the licensing agreement or not.  The "catalog" of available songs is then based upon the participating publishers and their specific song instructions.
>
> As HFA represents over 28,000 publishers, we charge an administration fee for the following: 

> * Drafting of a customized licensing agreement for your company.   
> * Preparation, printing and mailing of your proposal letters to over 28,000 music publishers in the U.S..
> * Responding to any publisher inquiries regarding your company and its offering.
> * Processing all publisher responses to your proposal.
> * Programming HFA's licensing systems for the specifics of your proposal and participating publishers.
> * Issuing licenses and distributing royalties to all HFA publishers who have selected to participate in your deal.
>
> HFA realizes that providers have different licensing needs and business models.  Some providers already have some direct deals in place with publishers, but wish to reach a broader publisher base.  Other providers may be focused on limited content that is controlled by specific publishing entities.  Therefore, HFA is pleased to offer a tiered administration fee structure that will enable providers to solicit the publishers required for their mechanical licensing needs ---  10 HFA affiliated publishers for $3,500; 20 HFA affiliated publishers for $7,000; or all HFA affiliated publishers for $10,000.
>
> Once a royalty rate proposed, HFA would prepare and forward your royalty proposal to the publishers in the form of an opt-in notice.  The publishers would notify HFA if they accept those terms.  For those that do not opt-in you would have to obtain a direct license from them.   
>
> Please let us know if you need additional information or would like to set up a call to further discuss.   We would need to review a business plan, funding/financial forecasts and a technology white paper as the next steps
>
> Best,
> Lauren
>
> Lauren Apolito
> Vice President of Business Development
> The Harry Fox Agency, Inc.
> 711 Third Avenue
> New York, NY 10017
> lapolito@harryfox.com

ASCAPS Digital fee is only $45.00 dollars this year running from June to july.
BMI approx the same
Seseac approx ? depends on number of box's and songs.

Like I said this is just to get you started. Next you have to obtain MASTERS of the music.
you can not use any thing other than these.
So if you live in the states(USA) it will cost a small fortune to start up, and trust me if you get
caught doing it illegal as I did they do press charges and the fines really hurt, Sometimes it will
bankrupt you right off the bat/They take your home and everthing.
>
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 07, 2007, 11:22:42 AM
Thanks for all the info, I will pass it on to our legal department.
Well the rental part was not making any money it was developed to promote the concept of the jukebox itself.So selling a jukebox to someone and showing them how to put their own music on the jukebox is not against any laws and is not subjected to any music licenses and such, we are just the hardware manufacture selling hardware not any music or media.
We also understand that everyone is entitled to make backups of the media purchased.Im not sure about who or what the mp3 thing is all about but software companies are building rippers even Apple has a ripper in ITUNES and I wanna think if thats illeagal the MP3 people would sue APPLE before they sue me and my million dollars of debt for providing hardware that is capable of playing even my own mp3's made with garage band. LOL I will be more then happy to give up my bills though if they want them. ;D

The old saying goes..."you cant get water out of a rock" chers

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on May 11, 2007, 04:08:49 PM
The MP3 thing should be covered as we are using active movie, freebox itself has no MP3 decoding routines within the software. It just uses what is provided by microsoft, how ever your microsoft licence probably limits you to home use only... The whole thing is a lot easier to get running here in the UK if only i had the start up capital... The jukeboxes availbe in bars here are pretty crappy as well. The only one i have seen that is any good is one that has 2 million songs on it. I can't remeber who makes that but it's not sound leisure who are the maion players in the UK, it might be JPM as the graphics are the same as thier gaming/quiz machine setups.. GAMEBOX i think.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 13, 2007, 12:09:59 AM
jopin that skin is outrageously cool

you guys planning on releasing that to the public ?
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 14, 2007, 10:43:14 AM
Hey Netcat !

Which skin are you refering to? The Harley Davidson Skin ?

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 14, 2007, 12:49:13 PM
YEs the HArley Skin.

Soooo coool

It might be nice to open a spinoff site where users can post & talk about Skins openly, I understand the problem discussing "The unmentionable skin" here and dont want to get shut down either.

anybody have some server space we can post & talk about skins openly ?
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 14, 2007, 12:56:25 PM
yeah I do, I have a linux box running here at the house.
I throw bbs or something on it and we can use it.
Its only 768kbps up stream but it should handle a forum with no problem.

which skin got us shutdown? the one with the work tunes in it? LOL

I will post up a link with the HD skins and I have to give eist1 the credit, he developed the skin and did a darn good job with it I think.


Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 15, 2007, 01:04:03 AM
Yes that one indeed.

The individual that was hosting this site originaly got threatened by the copyright owner of that particular skin "alegedly", and took it down overnight, (Without bothering to back it up I might add), this is how we ended up loosing the Skin Documentation

It is currently being hosted by me, on a server outside US Territory (which should minimize liability problems), however still not an excuse to rock the boat.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on May 15, 2007, 09:36:27 AM
Yes that one indeed.

The individual that was hosting this site originaly got threatened by the copyright owner of that particular skin "alegedly", and took it down overnight, (Without bothering to back it up I might add), this is how we ended up loosing the Skin Documentation

It is currently being hosted by me, on a server outside US Territory (which should minimize liability problems), however still not an excuse to rock the boat.


There is no allegedly about it.... I saw the legal stuff that was emailed to him. It all looked legit to me and it wasn't worth him pushing to find out. To be honest i don't really care if they try to do anything to me i'm in the UK and have no assets anyway, but i don't want the site being taken down again because of it. That could happen by the hosting company being leaned on, go daddy could shut us down and our internet providers could also shut us down. Those are the real factors for not wanting to upset them...
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 15, 2007, 11:22:33 AM
I totally understand and agree, no sense in rocking the boat or lighting a fire where we dont need too.

ANd Barry you do have assets bro, you have a wife and daughter to think about and Im sure you dont want this project to cause any un-necassary hardship on either of them, so lets just keep it fun.I really missed being involved with the project when I was in the Academy but the Academy took all of my time.

I have to admit Im a little leary now about the rental units and it is a gray area but I have not really been promoting or pushing them, I have just been alowing a few friends to set them up at partys to show the product.I dont see a problem with selling the jukebox as a product, but that is tough right now because of getting the music on the jukebox with artwork takes a little computer knowledge, and people who would pay for the jukebox dont want or have computer knowledge, its just an area we need to work on and develope.
I would offer to help but integrating one person code into another is a challange.I would truly like to see the whole project ported over to linux with a propriatary kernal but it would be a large investment and commitment.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 15, 2007, 11:46:13 AM
Agreed.

Those parties interested in using/contributing other materials, feel free to contact me so we can reach a solution, honestly Barry is right the forums is not the ideal place to be discussing this.


Email: tony@780tech.com
IM :   tonyis@hotmail.com
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on May 15, 2007, 12:59:44 PM
Linux is not happening at all... It would need to be coded in something other than VB and i am not even interested in learning C or C++ to switch to linux so i can say now there is no way it will be ported. However there is a version of linux that runs windows apps like halflife 2 etc so it might work as is with that but i don't have it to try.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 16, 2007, 03:38:17 AM
might it be possible to recompile in linux?

please read following article:

http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/02/21/visual_basic_mono_linux/ (http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/02/21/visual_basic_mono_linux/)

I had some trouble getting to the download link please see this
http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page (http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page)

and this
http://mono.ximian.com/monobuild/preview/download-preview/ (http://mono.ximian.com/monobuild/preview/download-preview/)

and this as well:
http://www.mono-project.com/MoMA (http://www.mono-project.com/MoMA)
Looks really interesting



Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 16, 2007, 10:49:36 AM
Yes you can write out your own kernal and recompile, it is completely open source.

I took to look around Mono and it seem to be just another distro kinda like mandrake and knoppix.

I really wasnt looking to port freebox, that was a misleading term, I was looking to actually build a OS that would just run a program like freebox.I know the it will have to be completely rewritten.I have ran Freebox on Win4Lin and it worked but the Windows OS is still laying on the system and thats what I would like to see gone.The long term goal would be to have the jukebox package and the entire os needed for the package on a chip leaving the hard drive/drives just for library storage.This would solve un-identified crashes and enominalies that come with VB and the MS OS.Not to mention there would be no cost for an os for each jukebox.

Historically most people didnt purchase jukeboxs for their homes and I think it was because they were expensive and to darn technical for people to understand.These issues would have to be addressed before a marketing plan could be devised.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on May 16, 2007, 11:59:31 AM
I found a commercial system you can buy in the U.K. i did email the guy last night but so far no reply.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 16, 2007, 02:44:52 PM
OK but how awesome would that be?

Barry would you have any objections to allowing the recompiling of Freebox within Mono (linux)? if not I know 2 or 3 people pretty savy with Linux that might be able to assist
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on May 16, 2007, 04:32:33 PM
Feel free, if you can make it work then all the better... I was just stating that linux isn't really something i am interested in. I will not be able to gaurentee it will work in linux and if i switch to windows media player there is probebly even less of a chance.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: coffee on May 16, 2007, 07:24:40 PM
I really like where you are going with this thread. I really like the packaging of freebox and the os on a chip idea. It will really be very very stable and realiable. Jonfinpausa, that's a good brainwave bro.
I will try and get it going.
I also thought of using a flashdrive to run freebox from and use a removeable harddrive to change the music on the juke to save time.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 16, 2007, 08:14:58 PM
I was really trying to find a market so Barry can make some money on his work.
I just cant sell a $2000.00 MP3 Jukebox to every Tom,Dick And Harry so I have to cut the cost.
One way is in the OS, I think Barry would be happy with a few bucks for every jukebox built especially if we are pumping them out to every WallMart in the US.We do have alot of work to do before that can happen but it is possible if we can get the cost of building the units way down and make it so anyone can just slide in a cd and will add the music,artwork,and titles with no fuss.It is possible.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 16, 2007, 09:05:04 PM
For starters we would need the VB sourcecode.

also instead of Jumpdrives consider something like this


(http://www.logicsupply.com/images/photos/flashdrives/fdm4400i1g.jpg)

http://www.logicsupply.com/index.php/cPath/44?referrer=googleAd&kw=solid%20state%20ide&nw=search&cr=765068785&pl=&gclid=COObhPnKk4wCFSHmgAodNUhm6Q (http://www.logicsupply.com/index.php/cPath/44?referrer=googleAd&kw=solid%20state%20ide&nw=search&cr=765068785&pl=&gclid=COObhPnKk4wCFSHmgAodNUhm6Q)
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on May 16, 2007, 09:26:54 PM
I was really trying to find a market so Barry can make some money on his work.
I just cant sell a $2000.00 MP3 Jukebox to every Tom,Dick And Harry so I have to cut the cost.
One way is in the OS, I think Barry would be happy with a few bucks for every jukebox built especially if we are pumping them out to every WallMart in the US.We do have alot of work to do before that can happen but it is possible if we can get the cost of building the units way down and make it so anyone can just slide in a cd and will add the music,artwork,and titles with no fuss.It is possible.

Fish

What you speak of already exists... It's 2,000+VAT or i can get the one without the software for 1,500+vat. It seems a little steep to me though as it only has a 15" screen.... I set a limit in my mind of 1,000 so i don't think i will go with that option. That has a 1.3ghz CPU an 80 gig HD and a 15" touchscreen in a proper commercial brushed metal case with custom artwork and coin mech. It does look great but it's a bit too pricey, especially for home use.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 17, 2007, 01:06:20 AM
Keep in mind also as cool as it may be its still not FREEBOX !

Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 20, 2007, 12:16:11 AM
Hey Barry, you mentioned a couple of days ago you would not mind someone trying to recompile within linux.

Would you be willing to provide us with a copy of the source code ? obviously if this does work we would also need to continue updating in par with your updates on the Windows side.

Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 20, 2007, 09:26:18 AM
Hey Netcat,

I dont think it would matter, I have 2 fulltime programmers on staff and they both agree the VB project would have to be completely rewritten to work correctly in a embeded Linux atomosphere.

I ask Barry about purchasing the code a year or so ago, and have my guys work a version for my company.
The project as my staff see's it is 3 weeks, with the code might be 2 weeks.I could have saved some money but even better we could have moved the project further forward and taking some of the work off Barry's but he wasnt interested and I understand that, he has alot of time and effort invested in this.Maybe now that the baby is here he might change his mind and want to pass some of the work along to someone else but that is his decision to make.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 20, 2007, 02:57:15 PM
Did you see the following information regarding compiling VB apps within Linux

http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2007/02/21/visual_basic_mono_linux/

I had some trouble getting to the download link please see this
http://www.mono-project.com/Main_Page

and this
http://mono.ximian.com/monobuild/preview/download-preview/

and this as well:
http://www.mono-project.com/MoMA

this is why I brought it up, do you have your guys actively working on a linux jukbox or are you going to?



Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 20, 2007, 07:21:52 PM
I understand and agree completely.

I respect and undertand the project is very close to Barry's heart, and would not judge him on any decision he takes regarding this project, after all it is his to do as he wishes.

I would however like to know what his opinion is regarding this at times he has mentioned he woudlnt mind but to the besty of my knowledge has never relased the source.

Again with no intention of offending, I think a simple straight forward yes or no would allow us to better contemplate the possibility of porting freebox to linux, not porting it, or perhaps something totally different.

Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: kizer on May 20, 2007, 09:06:31 PM
A port to linux would be a a great alternative, but personally opening up the source and letting it out would give Barcrest less control and well lets face it vultures are going to swoop in and I'd rather not see other authors with other motives ruin something that has been fun and well a great project.

Other than a big thank you to us there isn't any real advantage in letting the source out there for him. I don't speak for Barcrest nor would I ever, but thats just my opinion.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: coffee on May 20, 2007, 09:08:49 PM
I have to agree with Kizer. It's a bit risky. Can't we rather club together and ask Barry to give it a go. Club together like a donation I mean.
I would also like to see Freebox working with Linux but I think it should be up to Barry. He is the father of this project and I think we should respect his vision for this project but if he is willing to try it, I am in.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: jonfinpausa on May 21, 2007, 12:21:14 AM
Hey Guys !1

I agree with all of you, it is Barry's decision to make and I believe he prefers to leave Freebox in the windows enviornment and im good with that.I was just putting the alternative possibilty of a mass market jukebox.
Even in the linux world, we still have a lot of work to do.

Fish
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 21, 2007, 12:24:53 PM
Barry ?
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: Barcrest on May 21, 2007, 02:47:41 PM
I will not be releasing the source, i have posted up the source to simple juke. Anyone could make a juke from that, it already works it just doesn't look pretty. As for porting to linux i don't see any benefits at all.. Windows 2000 licences are so cheap that you will not really be saving any money. What you ideally need is a jukebox coded in C or C++ as porting that would be fairly straight forward.
Title: Re: Fish's Jukebox
Post by: netcat on May 21, 2007, 03:08:34 PM
I understand your decision and respect it.